coming up right after us. until tomorrow night let me say and behalf of all of us at fox news, good night and god bless. >> judge jeanine: hello and welcome to a special edition of "justice." i'm judge jeanine pirro. we continue our coverage of the boston terror attack. with the latest is mike tobin who is with us from watertown, massachusetts. >> reporter: judge, according to ed tivo the house behind me is just one and a half blocks off of the search grid outside of the perimeter and that is why dhokhar tsarnaev was able to avoid detection as he hid in the boat the avoiding detection by police and federal agents searching for him. now, they have him. he is according to the governor in serious but stable

condition. in beth israel hospital. he is still unable to speak, having been shot through the jaw. he could be charged at any time, the federal public defender has offered to represent him. myriad conrad says she expects to be appointed. following the surrender the is celebrations were immediate and spontaneous. they were out on the street but no where was the celebration more poignant than fenway park where the crowd sang "sweet caroline" but they were supplemented by neil diamond the man who sings it best. >> are you ready? ♪ >> reporter: no one invited him to come along and sing. he flew to town on his own nickel walked up to the ballpark and offered to sing. of course, they let him and he did it all to show support for the people here, judge. >> judge jeanine: that's great. let me ask you a question. with so many law enforcement agencies on this. the shootout in watertown.

>> reporter: right. >> judge jeanine: dhokhar is bleeding and one block behind the perimeter. wouldn't there be a trail to his location whether he is one block beyond or not? >> there was some what of a trail to his location and that is how he was spotted. the homeowner came out to smoke a cigarette and notice that there was a door to the shed open and there was bloody clothes and blood stains going into the boat where the shrink wrap over the top of the boat was disturbed. the individual picked up the shrink wrap and saw him and backed off and called 911. why there wasn't a larger or longer blood trail i can't answer that. >> judge jeanine: thank goodness for the thermal sensorring from the helicopters as well as a very alert woman who notice or the man who noticed thae blood around the boat. mike tobin, thanks so much. and now to catherine herridge, fox news chief intelligence correspondent. catherine, what do we know about the suspect's terror

connection? >> reporter: fox news was told that investigators are exploring potential links between the older brother tamerland and an extremist group. this is based on his travels as well as the contents of his you tube travel. among the videos deleted from the play list were links to another extremist group which is under the umbrella of the teamist caucuses emrate. investigators are looking for related e-mail traffic and direct person to person contact and evidence of training. in 2012011 the group was desiga terrorist organization. it received a similar label from the al-qaeda and taliban captions committee that same year. the russian government asked the fbi to investigate the older brother because he was "a follower of radical islam and a strong believer and had changed drastically since 2010 as he prepared to leave the united states to join what the are you shawns called an unspecified

underground group. the fbi said it found no evidence of terrorist activity. that revealation according to a member of the house intelligence committee is causing unease at the bureau. >> at this point i think there is a great deal we don't know about it. clearly we were given a request to look into his background prior to the trip. there are a lot of palpitations. what if anything did they miss and that will be heavily scrutinized. >> this is the first we have had identified and significant that it is one that has these islamic ties, judge. >> judge jeanine: you wrote a book about americans being recruited by the terrorists. were you surprised by any of this? >> we are early in the investigation and one of the things i outlined in "the next wave" is there a profile. often you see cases of individuals born overseas, they come here to the united states

as young kids and they he never fully asimulate. that may well have been the case with the older brother who was a leader for the younger individual. it is not uncommon to see people through the web back more radicalized. you see that he had posted what i would describe as this jihadi stew of web videos lectures with the different radical imams. a lot of that evidence is there and part of what the described as the new digital jihad. sometimes you don't even have to leave your own home to get access to this kind of material or the individuals. >> judge jeanine: catherine herridge, thanks so much. >> you're welcome. >> judge jeanine: now, that the is suspect is in custody how will he be brought to justice? with me he is michael sullivan, former acting director of the atf and the former prosecutor who prosecute the the shoe bomber. and jay sekulo and peter

johnson, jr. welcome, gentlemen. >> thank you. >> judge jeanine: we know that dhokhar tsarnaev is in serious but stable condition. a lot of talk about miranda. michael you prosecuted richard reid the shoe bomber in federal court. how unusual is it to not read miranda warnings? >> case specific. if there is an imminent public safe itty concern they should exercise the miranda exception under public safety and try to get as much information as they possibly can in order to protect the public. i think it is perfectly legitimate under these circumstances. >> judge jeanine: jay, to you when we talk about the public safety exception here. how long is that exception good for are? how long can they go without reading him his rights? >> there is no definitive statement but most people believe it is 48 hours. you a situation here where the distort accused is not conscious are in to even speak so 48 hours.

points to a fundamental problem with thinking about mir randiesing. do we want a prosecution or an investigation to determine how deep the terrorist links might be and whether there were additional plans for terror activity. an awful load of weapons that the two possessed. the situation with the travel to russia. all miranda means and judge you know this, if there is a statement given by the defendant before he is mirandaizeed it may not be admissible. an evidencery point. affirmative defense to the admissibility of a piece of evidence. they already made statements to the person they carjacked saying they did this. i'm not really wore relationshipped about prosecution here. this is a perfect example of when serious consideration should be he given to enemy combatant status and needs to be looked at seriously. >> judge jeanine: the obama administration has indicated they are going through the public safety exception but you all indications are that they want to prosecute this guy in

the federal court. having said that when the police came out and said that, you know, this is no longer a danger here. haven't they in essence destroyed the public safety exception by saying everything is okay, everybody can come out, all is well? >> here is the problem. they made that statement and then about ten minutes later they engaged the defendant. the accused. so all was not well. and i understand the police were making the best effort. i think they did a heroic and fantastic job. i'm not sure that would be dispositive. i think the whole idea of mirandizing this individual is a mistake from the get go. i have done a lot of work with the justice department, worked with treasury. i hate that they are going down this route but looks like that is the road they go down. >> judge jeanine: it does seem that they will go through the federal criminal justice system. having said that is there some point at which the miranda issue is going to be evaluated?

>> going to be evaluated depending on how much information the high asset interrogation team gets from the suspect. the bigger question, judge jeanine is how do we value our constitutional rights in this country. obviously we are afraid. obviously we are in terror. but do we pick ourselves up or throw the constitution down and say okay, now we are going have military police and military authorities making dehe sixes about criminal justice matters in the country. that is a robust question. >> judge jeanine: are you saying peter then because he is a citizen that he now has more rights than someone who is an enemy combatant in another country? >> the most contemptible citizen in the united states today but you he is a citizen of the united states of america and we have a framework by which people are judged. by which people guilt or innocence is ajudged. i believe the exception should go forward.

i don't care if it goes forward for 30 days if they interrogate h him for 30 days but at some point i believe he belongs in the federal court because if he doesn't go into the federal court these terrorists have won and that is what i don't want. >> judge jeanine: you believe that the military tribunal is not the way to go. michael sullivan i will go back to you for another men now. richard reid prosecuted in the federal court. how long was his sentence? >> he received a life sentence. he received the maximum sentence that the law provided for. but i agree with jay. i think that our government needs to determine whether or not there is any national security, national defense benefit by identifying him as an enemy combatant and if it is, if there is then they should identify him, designate him as an enemy combatant and get as much intelligence as we possibly can from him. if they make a determination that there is none then obviously he should be

prosecuted. >> judge jeanine: gentlemen, stand by. we are coming back. later, how far can the government go to get answers in their interrogation of the boston bombing suspect? there is no mass-produced human. ♪ there is no mass-produced every signature is unique and every fingerprint unrepeatable. and there is one store that recognizes it: the

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>> judge jeanine: back with michael, jay and peter. peter, what is the benefit to trying a case in the civilian court as opposed to a military tribunal? >> that is an interesting question. the benefit is ensuring that the rule of law in the constitution is met. i think we should do everything we possibly can to get as much information legally out of this guy and if we have to violate his miranda rights under the -- under the emergency doctrine, the public safety exception, do it. but that is what we are going to be doing. >> judge jeanine: here is my take on this. the bottom line is we don't

need any statement he makes to allow us to convict him. i don't think there is any question. you have him on video and admitting he is the bomber to the guy he ends up carjacking. you have people who saw him put the backpack down. if he is an enemy combatant and tried in a mill tare arery tribunal isn't it true that those convictions are questionable in terms of not having gone to the united states supreme court? >> welsh the united states supreme court, first of all, has said and i got a lot of respect for peter but i disagree with the point. the supreme court said that u.s. you citizens when they become belligerent and they can become enemy combatants and subject to military tribunals number one. number two, i think it is the wrong lens. we can prosecute this guy if he survives and put him in jail forever. great. except that doesn't answer the question. by the way, it is not just the department of justice through the fbi that can mir randize

him. >> you are allowing the taliban and al-qaeda and the people that hate you and me and what we stand for and the people that we love in this country, there has to be and i think and i respect you and i love what you say all the time. there has to be some respect for the constitution and i know you fight every day for the constitution. >> peter -- >> judge jeanine: the issue is that the federal court convictions are many in the years since 9/11 and in the military tribunal very few and they have been subject to a lot of reversals. so michael is sullivan let me go to you. which way do we go. in do we want to be assured of a conviction that is longstanding or is it better to send a message and keep this guy under questioning for the next three and a half years like jose padilla? >> it doesn't have to be one versus the other. i would suggest that essentially you exhaust his enemy combatant status to get

as much intelligence as you possibly can to see what cells he is connected to, are they here or abroad and then ones that is done prosecute him for the terrorist act in an article three court. he would be facing the death penalty under the circumstances. >> and third -- >> we have to give some thought to this notion. why wasn't the navy seals then involved? why wasn't the green berets involved in the takedown? why wasn't the battalion -- you you are confusing. >> no, i'm not. >> with the investigation. >> i'm talking about. >> judge jeanine: the issue, gentlemen, without getting. >> peter. >> do we give it over to the military? no. >> judge jeanine: without get into the issue whether it was seals or here or there. at the end of the day this guy is going to be tried in civilian court. will the government seek the death penalty? >> yes. >> they have to. >> they will. >> and i also think that the government -- yes, they should. and i hope they will seek the death penalty if it goes into an article three court and a i also believe that the united states attorney initiate a

revokation of his naturalization of his citizenship. i understand from the record he became a naturalized citizen on 9/11 of last year under false pretenses. he wore an oath of allegiance to our country and wore an oath to take up arm for our country and he took up arms against our country. >> judge jeanine: citizenship is not a criteria. citizenship is not a criteria for determining which court you go in the military tribunal report other. >> you don't have to make that decision now, judge. >> judge jeanine: right. >> we are getting way off base here. they can determine him to be an enemy combatant today and still bring a charge in the article three court. [ overlapping speakers ] >> our nation is not based on. >> the supreme court already said -- >> i believe that the defense authorization act is

unconstitutional and i don't believe we he have a true basis to do this. i say interrogate the heck out of this guy -- >> i disagree. >> -- as long as it takes but let's have a trial. >> jay is absolutely, correct. he can be he designated an enemy combatant and get as much entell against as we can from him. >> it is up to the president. the president is not going to do it. let's deal with the cards we have. >> that doesn't mean he should don't it. he should do it. >> judge jeanine: based upon the way the u.s. attorney has spoken we are going in under the public safety exception and charge him and once they charge him and the federal defender is jumping up and down trying to get permission to represent him it is clear that both are going to happen. >> we need to say to the world that our criminal justice system will take you down if you take americans down. i'm proud of our system. >> he did take americans down and we don't know he if they are going to take him down. we have to get the intelligence. >> let's put the u.s. >> we have to -- >> judge jeanine: i think you are all right and the obama

administration is playing it down the middle here and going to do both. michael, jay and peter thanks for being with us. >> thanks, judge, thank you. >> judge jeanine: what interrogation techniques will be used against dhokhar? and the older brother was intertare gaited in 2011 and they let him go. does the fbi have some explaining to do? credit score's redesigned site has this new score planner tool with these cool sliders. what's this one do? i dunno. ♪every rose has it's thorn score planner is free to everyone. free score applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com bret michaels slider still in beta.

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detainee interrogation group made up of agents from the fbi, cia and department of defense. what techniques will they use? let's ask former cia former counter terrorism agent gary burnson and former special agent in charge of the bin laden unit, jack klunen. welcome, gentlemen. how tough will they be on this guy? >> they are are going in here because this is what the team was designed to do and they will try to elicit information to detect whether or not there was in fact other are cells or coconspirators. they doll a behavioral analysis. they know he is 19 years old and his physical condition precludes him from being spoken to at this point in time so they will have done a lot of analysis before they go in there and know probably within 30 seconds to a minute as to where he will go with this. if they can persuade him he has

an out. >> judge jeanine: what might that out be? >> at some point he will probably realize he is facing capital murder charges. >> judge jeanine: facing death. >> they haven't charged him but go ahead. >> and the fact his family will play an undoubtedly an important role in all this. really about eliciting information. >> judge jeanine: i'm going to interrupt you right there. when you say the family will undoubtedly play a role in this. did you find it unusual. you are with the fbi and you know the game and the drill and how it works. when we got the request, when the fbi comes out and says here are the two guys can you help us identify them who they are and if you know them. the family here on our dime that we gave political asylum and scholarships to they don't say a word and you know as well as you are sitting here that they knew they were their sons, their cousins, their nephews. does that make you angry? >> i think the uncle said how embarrassed he was.

>> judge jeanine: but that was after. >> that was after the fact. we have to understand that they were spoken to, that the fbi interviewed the family probably twice. were these guys operating in a vacuum? i don't want to die gres digero far. there are a lot of tell tale signs that need to be addressed. i don't think it will be a hard sale. entirely possible given his physical state right now by the time he is conscious and able to answer questions, judge and you know this better than most he may in fact have a lawyer. >> judge jeanine: and the lawyers are trying to get involved in this right now and looking to get approval from a federal judge. all right. talk to me. >> if he is not in there with a lawyer they will sit down with him and attempt to establish rapport with him. they will not go in there and try to bully him. they will make it clear to him what his crimes were, this he know what his crimes were. he know hass his crimes were.

they will walk him through the entire thing very carefully. they don't want to it alienate him and they will try to establish rapport and get him to start to talk to them and establish areolationship with them and establish a bit of trust. based on that, look this is not gait that traveled to russia. his brother traveled to are you you sha and was probably the one that got recruited. if they are able to determine that this brother was recruit by the other brother who is essentially is follower, i suspect if they can get one on one they will be able to get his cooperation. he is not a hardened trained terrorist. he is a terrorist that murdered people and did terrible things but i think that they will get him to talk. >> judge jeanine: if they can get h him to talk, let's assume that they get him to talk. what do you think he knows if the older brother is the one who went to russia and had the jihaddist videos. >> the depth of information that he has may be little. he may know not an awful lot of

information at all. we are making a lot of assumptions about his affiliation and his brother's affiliation and others. we he don't know. he may know very little. we have to find out if there are other conspirators out there. what we want a actionable stuff. what we want is cooperation. we just don't want him to give us bad information because we know that this stuff can send us down bad alleys. >> judge jeanine: do you think talking nice to this guy, he was blowing people's legs off five days guy. >> they will go in and not just talk nice to him but try to be reasonable. the thing that they will try to determine is was your brother recruited or did he walk in and volunteer. there was a handler directing them. what we need to know is was this self-initiated by the older brother after he established contact or is there a handler directing things and other things will be directed.

it is important to know have the chechens opened a front in the u.s. for attacks. >> what is the premise here? since late 2001 to october of 2011 there have been 53 al-qaeda inspired attacks directed at the homeland. this is what is driving this effort here. because we are always talking about homegrown. what is causing ray kelly to sleep at night. what is causing the fbi director and all of people in law enforcement is ten years out from 9/11 we can't answer the following question. we don't know what is going to happen. so again we have to go in, build rap pore, ge rapport. get the information. it is actionable. not a confession. >> judge jeanine: we don't need a confession that the point. trying to protect the homeland. >> there is enough evidence. >> judge jeanine: gary and jack we will see you after the break. stay with us. up next, the fbi knew about

tamerlan tsarnaev as far back as 2011. and can anything be done to prevent these kinds of attacks in a free society? tony used priceline to book this 4 star hotel. tell 'em why. free breakfast with express deals, you can save big and find a hotel with free breakfast

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live from america's news headquarters i'm marianne rafferty. those who live near the site of a deadly fertilizer plant explosion in west, texas being allowed home if they he still have a home to return to. wednesday night's blast leveled dozens of houses and killed at least 14 people and injured nearly 200 others. a city spokes person saying leaking gas tanks triggered new you fires at the site. the midwest dealing with severe floods after a week of heavy rain. the national weather service predicting major flooding on the mississippi river for the weekend. the areas in the most immediate danger include the quad-cities

to just north of st. louis. and the magglioty nude 6.6 earthquake in southwest china killing at least 160 people and injuring thousands. the quake saturday destroying buildings while triggering landslides and disrupting power. the death toll there is expected to rise. i'm marianne rafferty. now, back to "justice" with judge jeanine. for the latest headlines log on to foxnews.com. >> judge jeanine: could the boston bombings have been prehe vented. the fbi admits that they spoke with the older brother in 2011 at the request of most likely the russian government who wore relationshipped that tamerlan the older brother was a follower of radical islam. so, did someone drop the ball? with us, former fbi special agent on the bin laden unit, jack and joining him is the assistant director of the fbi counter terrorism division terry joins us from

san francisco. i will start with you terry. is someone in trouble here? >> judge, we will find out what is going to happen here but i think what happened is this, the fbi agent got assigned the case. probably on the it jttf and went in and did the interview. what you want to do in a situation like this is get in front of the person and use the authority and guidelines you have and complete the investigation and you go go sit down usually in the person's house and take everything you know and you know a lot by the time you conduct the interview. you ask a lot of questions and you are looking for the person to tell you the answers that you know to be truthful. if you catch the person in a lie you will know maybe they are not being honest but if everything in the house looks right, the person is answering the questions correctly if you detect any anomalies it is very, very defendant under the guidelines we operate with to go any further with it. we don't have the kind of domestic intelligence collection we used to have. and so we can't just keep these

things going entirely or forever. >> judge jeanine: jack, look, i watched homeland and 4. at the end of the day, you have another government who is saying we have a guy in the united states who might be a terrorist. we need your hope. you go in and what does he say i'm not a terrorist and then you call it a day. in. >> i don't take issue with terry. i have a lot of respect for terry. when you get a lead from a foreign government like this and let's say it was the russians and they tell you that this guy has not only coming into the country but may be joining underground groups you own this case. it is not the russians that own the case. we own the case. this guy is in our country. gentlemen thyes, the guidelineu to do certain amount of, the fbi acknowledged that they scrubbed his background. looked at internet traffic and the phone records. probably did the financial workup. at the end of the day you and i sitting across from the table.

they did it one time and after he came back from russia they did it a second time. at some point somebody has to say a, we don't see anything but a but we will close the case down because we term that he is not the a threat to national security. somebody makes the call. >> judge jeanine: terry, let me go back to you. this buy it goes to russia for -- this guy goes to russia for six months last year which signals there probably is a problem. he has all of the radical videos, jihaddist videos that he is posting. does any one follow up on this? you don't need a search warrant. by the way. this is public information. just follow the guy. this is a bombing in boston. we interrogated in boston. we know the russian government is concerned about him. he has been flying to russia. you don't have to be a rocket scientist to put two and two together. why did it take us so long to

find the guy? >> if the case was closed and the initial interviews were done and the case is closed there is really no mechanism to go back and rehe look at this because there is too many of these cases going on. people make these judgments all day long. we have thousands of these things going on all day long and in this instance we are still getting fragmented information about what exactly was the team line here on what happened. i think at the end of the kay when all of the information comes out and i agree with what jack was just saying we will have better perspective of how this transpired and what kind of information was used here to make these judgments. he want to take this and go one step further. talking earlier about should we have a trial or talk about this person as an enemy combatant. one of the greatest things about having the system we do is this kind of information needs to come out. it doesn't need to be concealed behind prisons and places like guantanamo. it needs to come into the system. we need to be able to talk

about this and be able to see what exactly happened. the best place we will get those kinds of answers is right in the middle of the courtroom. >> judge jeanine: the only people who need this information is people who can act on it. the most important thing is protecting americans. do you actually this? don't you look for the usual suspects if you is a bombing in boston a guy who lives in boston, another government told us about him? you know, bob mueller has to be shaking in his boots right now at the fbi. >> i don't think the director is looking forward to appearing before congress and asking the questions from the house selected or senate selected committee. the director has transformed the bureau. it is about predictive analysis and not always just reacting to post incident because we see we did pretty well. we are always talking about the homegrown phenomenon. i think we have to step up and any organization has to do an after crisis analysis.

>> judge jeanine: certainly that is going to happen. i don't think there is a question. >> if we don't have the right legislation if we didn't have the right skillsets to win the talks we have to right the ship. you know why? because at the end of the day the public demands this. we have to be 100% right. >> judge jeanine: and it is not an easy job and for the fbi they do do a great job, no question. i think there is issues that have to be resolved. terry and jack, thanks so much for being with us. when we come back, is this the new you face of terror? and later can future attacks ever be prevented? stamps.com is the best.

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just so shocking like one day i don't know like one day you can just like acting like nothing happened and like if you really did this, which it just seems like he did, it is crazy how he can be cool and calm tempered like that. he just acted like nothing happened. >> judge jeanine: by all accounts, the tsarnaev brothers never raised any eyebrows. no one thought them capable of such horrific acts. the younger brother a student and wrestler. the older brother a husband and a father. both reaping the benefits of being in america. is the face of terror changing in this country? with me is terrorism analyst eric who joins me from d.c.

all right, eric, chechnya not akrontry that we hear about as it relates to terrorism on our shores. is your take on all of this? >> judge, i have to say chechnya, at the end of the day chechnya is another front in the global jihad. not just a russian separatist movement like i have heard some commentators saying the past few days. chechnya is looked at by chechens and foreign and global terrorists as a front against the global jihad. the other rink super bowl with chechens they are white muslims, kaw saysian. in an airport you are not necessarily look at a white guy with a baseball cap like these two guys were. when we saw, sir veilance video the first guy i looked at was

the middle eastern looking gentleman in the blue track suit. that is another advantage for the terrorists to use caucasians. >> judge jeanine: i think it is the perfect example of how the racial profiling isn't the way to go. i mean that it is all about behavior and making sure that we look at what people are doing as opposed to how they look. but i mean this kid this 19-year-old, he had a baby face. he could be any one of the kids that we know. any one of the kids we see walking on the the street. let me bring your attention to that bump and stop that we just heard coming in and that is that this kid apparently worked out in the gym. he was relationship very relaxed. how hard could this kid have been? >> well, the 19-year-old, judge, i believe that he was radicalized by his older brother. apparently his older brother was a very he forceful personality and i think one of the key things here is look the older brother last year we know visited chechnya, the jihad

hotbeds. he was there for six months. i'm sure he wasn't just there looking for good russian vodka. no, he was hooking up with global terrorists. where were our intelligence officials and agents here? he was being monitored? how did they miss the signs? >> judge jeanine: how often does a foreign country ask us to look at someone who may be a terrorist in our own country. that is for a future hearing that is for sure. what about the fact that you have the kid and the two bombers who stayed in the area. they didn't try to commit suicide. there were no -- you know, they didn't flee the area. they are are hanging out. i mean this is -- you know, the height of confidence, arrogance. as a much as we say that this 19-year-old may have been influenced by the brother he had some way of handling himself? >> don't get me wrong, judge he is a terrorist through and through and the chechens are

some of the most vicious terrorists worldwide. arrogance and perhaps amateur issues new mexico that sense. amateurism in that sense. there had to be training on the russian visit by the older brother. the key point which nobody asked. judge, which mosque did the two brothers attend? were they radicalized in an american mosque? we know that there are many radicalized american mosques that is without a doubt that take foreign funding. where did they go in boston? who was their imam. is a key question. everyone is asking how did they he become radicalized? maybe right here at an american mosque. no one is asking the question. >> judge jeanine: good question. very good to have you on. thanks for being with us this evening. >> thank you. >> judge jeanine: when we get back, what can any of us do to prevent future attacks? is it even possible? and we pay tribute to the men and women in law enforc enforct

who tracked down the suspected bomber. stay with us. [ engine sputters ] [ dennis ] allstate wants everyone to be protected on the road. whether you're an allstate customer or not. all you have to do is call. [ female announcer ] call and sign up for good hands roadside assistance today. [ dennis ] are you in good hands? it shows. we don't run like that. we build john deere equipment the way we always have: the right way. times change. our principles don't. you don't just have our word on it. you've got our name on it. that's how we run. nothing runs like a deere.

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whatever agenda drove these minutes to such heinous acts cannot prevail. whatever they thought they could ultimately achieve they he already have failed. they failed because the people of boston refuse to be entim dated. they failed because as americans we refuse to be terrorized. they failed because we will not waiver from the character are and the compassion and the values that define us as a country. >> judge jeanine: but will character compassion and values prevent future terror attacks?

what if anything can be done to defend american citizens? let's ask former assistant secretary of homeland security who joins us from d.c. thanks for being with us this evening. >> thank you, judge. great to be here. >> judge jeanine: thank you. we made some inroads. you know, we have taken out some of the leaders. we have destroyed some of their camps but it appears that the front is a little different now and that we now are are seeing attacks in open areas like a couple of years ago, times square and now in boston at the soft targets. what do you you see happening now? >> clear early there is a trend on this. i mean we have seen this all along since we started the department of homeland security. the move away from hard targets where we put a lot of resources into the softer less protected targets because they are so ubiquitous across the united states.

>> judge jeanine: how do we protect in an open free society where people can walk around in the country and if you are not the a courthouse where there is a metal detector and not some where where there is all kinds of surveillance? what do we do? >> let's be honest, we he can't protect anything more can we afford to. we have to manage the risk around protection. look at them, let's say way the way since 9/11. combine good intelligence with good law enforcement and prevention and good protection against the things that we think we have the highest value around and have to be able to accept the risk that we just can't protect everything. >> have we been concentrating too much on cells as opposed to individuals? one of the first things we heard is we didn't hear any chatter. there might not have been chatter with someone like the two individuals.

>> certainly on intel side a lot of evidence that al-qaeda and other groups as has been discussed earlier has been looking for folks with clean skin and below the radar screen that might be inspired to act on their own without a lot of guidance. sort of pick a target and go for it. what we look for in the future to occur is similar types of attacks. low level, i'm not talking about, any loss of that is acceptable. i think we adequately protected the targets. look at the trend going. individually self-radicalized and the lone actors probably inspired to attack similar types of targets. maybe not the boston marathon. maybe less protected targets in the future. there are things we can do for that. i believe it is important to state that while we can't protect everything we certainly can do a lot of things to protect what we have out there. >> judge jeanine: and, of course, we rely on the public

if you see something say something. robert -- >> if i could mention that. pardon me one second. >> judge jeanine: coming up you against a hard break. go ahead. >> a very important part. three legs to the stool here. the government and private sector which is is a significant component because of the technologies throughout. i happen to sit on a company with great sec followings out there and the civilian population. to see something and say something is critical for us to be able to do this. >> judge jeanine: couldn't agree with you more. thanks for being with us this evening. >> thank you. >> judge jeanine: you have seen up close and personal what law enforcement does every day. the background not as dramatic. the attention not as wide. men and women in the danger zone happens every day in america. the beat they walk is a battle field where the fight between good and evil unfolds. scenarios deadly. they are the one line that separates a civil society from a barbaric one.

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>> geraldo: probing the boston bombings this a fox news alert. i'm geraldo rivera reporting that the week that started with explosions and gunfire screams and misery is ending with cheers, relief and neil diamond singing "sweet caroline" the team's anthem at the red sox game at fenway park. as we grieve for the dead and pray for the wounded and is celebrate the awesome effort to hunt down, kill and capture the perpetrators, now comes the hard questions we will try to answer tonight. like when and by who will dhokhar tsarnaev the 19-year-old surviving suspect be interrogated. should he get his miranda

warnings against self-incrimination. tried in a is civilian court or military tribunal. before we go there let's start with the latest from the scene and why craig and a i immediately recognized the pressure cooker bombs. we have seen them many times before. here is craig's crime time report. >> reporter: the quiet streets of watertown became a war zone as the boston marathon bombers made their last stand here. homes can be seen riddled with bullets. this black mark from a pressure cooker bomb, one just like the one that was used to kill three people, wounding 180. >> there was two cars. black suv and a green looked like honda accord. had some bags that he was one of the guys was lighting things and throwing them. had fuses and they would explode but you also lots of shoot going on. >> brothers dhokhar 19 and

26-year-old tamerlan starr tsarnaev add to the marathon death toll, killing police officer shawn collier in cold blood. >> the police officer that was killed you said it was a massacre. >> assassination. he was shot two times in the back of the head as he was in the cruiser. he didn't have a chance to defend himself. >> reporter: the officers responding to an all points bulletin of a carjacking when they saw the stolen mercedes, followed closely by a green honda. >> how did you first learn where they were? >> we got notified by the cambridge police department there was an execution of an mit police officer and then there was a carjacking. we from what we heard from the carjack the victim's cell phone was left in the vehicle so the police were able toping the phone and we were told the vehicle is in watertown. >> reporter: when the brothers realized they were being pursued they opened fire. >> three more officers.

two off duty officers showed up within a men or two and we were in a serious gunfight in a backstreet in watertown and 2 or 300 rounds went off and three bombs went off in a ten minute period. >> reporter: as the battle raged 3-year-old transit officer richard donahue was gravely wounded. >> tell me about that battle and the arm ament that they had? >> handguns and long arm and they threw five bombs. three went off, two didn't. one of the bombs my understanding is, is a similar if not exactly like the bomb that went off at the boston marathon. >> this guy lit something and it was much bigger. co-only make it to right there where you see there is right in front of that silver car there that is where that landed and that much so many bigger than the other ones. knocked some pictures off the wall. that was the point we were like

holy crap. >> james and lizzy huddled inside their home, shielding their newborn son billy but couldn't resist watching from the bedroom window. >> reporter: and with your little baby. what are you thinking? >> i was petrified. i felt safe because he there was. we were just watching it was like a movie. it was incredible. >> you don't train for this or plan for this. >> reporter: neighbors say tamerlan ran towards the officer firing his weapon rambo style while his brother tossed explosives. this is where dhokhar ran over his older brother as he was trying to make his desperate escape. >> he ran over his own brother and dragged him down the street and then we had a transit police officer that came in behind our officers that was shot in the groin in the artery and was bleeding out so we had our officers went to that person's aid. >> reporter: a portrait emerged of the brothers, naturalized

citizens. radded calizeed islamists here in america in recent years. tamerlan spent six months in russia last year. top cops want to know if the attacks are tied to islam eck terror training camps. item, may 2012, u.s. jurors hear that express ives experts found a pressure cooker containing smokeless gun powder in the texas motel room of a soldier planning to blow up fort hood military troops. item, may 2010 one of three devices used in the times square bombing was a pressure cook. getting to and from the villages is dangerous for the military and the roads are often lined with ieds. >> on patrol in afghanistan, i saw items sold right outside their base used to attack soldiers. >> many times the ieds used against the military are made with crude devices. a pressure cookers and

fertilizers and a lot of times you can see that the pressure cooker is being sold right in the market right next to the fertilizer store. >> the 506 lost two soldiers when taliban fighters set their deadly sights as they exited the vehicle. >> was it your impression they were going to use that for another massive bombing? >> in retrospect now we saved a lot of lives. they he didn't flee the scene after the boston marathon. >> reporter: less than an hour after the search for dhokhar was called off a resident notice blood on his covered boat and called 911 after finding the bloodied 19-year-old college student hiding in his boat? >> how did you end up getting him out of the boat? >> talking him out. the negotiation team went in. he eventually stood up, answered so commands. we were concerned he might have a device on his chest.

he lifted his shirt to show us that he didn't and the people on scene were able to take him into custody. >> reporter: the chief is not alone in his pride. grateful residents streamed into the watertown police department carrying trays of food. smiling children delivered cheerful letters. one tearful couple bursting with pride even gave up cherished red sox tickets to the heroic companies who put their lives on the line. >> geraldo: when is dhokhar going to be healthy enough to be questioned? adam housely is at beth israel hospital in boston where he is being treated. what is his condition? >> that is a million dollars question. how much has he been asked. is he coherent enough to ask and when will that all begin? we have been told a couple of things. not a lot but a couple of things. the u.s. attorney's office as well as the fbi said that the suspect here is in serious but stable condition at this hour.

that he is expected to make and you can hear a helicopter taking off here at the emergency room where he was brought in. under heavy guard here as well. he was -- at this time last night, of course, the operation we were told was underway. he has a number of injuries. at least two of them are gun sals shot wounds. one is to the head or neck region and the other maybe to his leg. but, of course, the hospital keeping very, very quiet here. us abi said they will give statement said he is in serious condition,othing more than that. a lot of guards here. inside, outside. every entrance. every exit. you to have a pass and they check your purse and your bag and your jacket. and if you don't have someone inside you are not allowed to go in at all, not even to use the bathroom here. on the floor where he is held a large police presence as well. we are told that a specialized team here to ask him questions when is ready when doctors say he is ready. are they inside there waiting? we don't know for sure but last

night about 4:30 this morning we saw two fbi investigators come out and get this their car and drive off. they didn't answer any of our questions when we approached them. it gives you an idea how serious the situation is here. even though boston is coming back to life and rebeginning to recover here that the hospital they are keeping this boy alive and doing what they can to try to make sure they get as much information out of him as possible. the same hospital where his brother was pronounced dead and some of the people affected by the bombs on monday are still recovering. geraldo? >> geraldo: adam housley in boston. thanks for the updates. of all of the twists and turns perhaps none is more shocking than the fact that the feds were warned. they were arounded that the dead older brother tamerlan had turned to the dark side. did they share that information with the boston p.d.? that is next.

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>> geraldo: here is the question with the boston marathon massacre. did the brothers commit the vial crimes on their own or did they have outside help from al-qaeda or some other terrorist group? chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge joins us. catherine, so what do we know? did they have help or not? >> that is one of the things investigators are looking into and scrubbing the records of the event. two years acin 2012 when the russian government asked the fbi to investigate the older brother but a because he was a quote radical supporter of islam and a strong believer and left the united states to join what the russians described as unspecified terrorist groups. the revealation is causing unease at the bureau. >> there are a lot of palpiat that timions going on about

what did they say and what if anything did they miss and that will be heavily scrutinized. >> former head of count youer terrorism at the fbi says the bar are is high with federal investigators without solid evidence of terrorist activities and identifying with an extremist group's ideas is simply not enough. >> we have hundred hundreds ift thousands of people in the country who is have some sort of sympathy to foreign terrorist organizations and in the nature of this democracy there is only so much you can do. >> fox news is told that investigators are exploring poe he tension links between the older brother and an extremist group known as the caucuses emrate. this is based on the travel in the first half of 201 which stops in chechnya and the content of the older brother's youtube channel. the group is known for its attacks on russian trains and the russian airport.

it was designated a terrorist entity in 2011 by the u.n. al-qaeda and taliban sanctions committee and by the u.s. state department that year. fox news is told this is one of several groups they are looking at but one of th key questionss whether they were able to do this on their own or part of a survivors you port network that was part of a broader conspiracy helping them unwittingly in the leadup to the bombings. >> geraldo: on thursday when they released the video they said these are the people we are looking for and no names attached. at what point did they figure out that they had interviewed the old oar brother two years previously? >> i belie pickup that they realized they had interviewed him and what struck me, geraldo is, how complete the statement was from the fbi on this incident because it goes as far as to say that a foreign government we believe it is the russian government indicated that this guy was already radicalized and

was traveling outside of the country and one of the key questions for investigators is where did he get the training. a former member of the joint terrorism task force with the fbi said that these guys almost had what amounted to a small explosives factory going on in the boston area and to produce that many explosives that are viable and to handle so many without an accident takes real training but it also takes sustained practice because making bombs is like being trained to be a surgeon. you can't just learn and then try it a couple you of years later. you to be constantly practicing your skills to be successful. >> geraldo: thank you. i appreciate it. joining me ho now the first ofr guests. the former assistant director of the ncis and bo deedle. it is obvious or would appear

logical when came back for six months. six months you could learn how to do this. you could launch a nuke. >> they put you on a watch list if you come in with over $10,000. he wasn't o on a watch list. his mother and father came here for asylum. they went back to russia. stevie wonder as an fbi agent could figure this out. where are the parents now. she got locked up and he couldn't get nationalized because assaulting his girlfriend or his wife whoever it is. it goes on and on. dropped the ball with 9/11 with the planes taking off and learning how you to fly but you don't learn how to land. my problem is if this is a game change. we need the fbi to get more involved. i sal something and a lot of people get angry when i talk. stop spending the money on the organized crime. these terrorists are the ones that kill our children and kids with no legs and little kids being killed. we need the fbi. are start focusing on the damn

terrorists. >> geraldo: if he is going back to russia how are they getting him go back to russia if two years earlier they asked the united states to check him out if they said he was returning to the dark side, radical islam. >> to provide perspective. incredibly dram ironjack and emotional event right now. if a service a friendly service now a friendly service like the fsv makes that request to the fbi and the fbi does a preliminary investigation and interview the individual and run database checks and law enforcement intelligence indices, reach out to allies and let's say there wasn't much there, they he work with the fsb. >> used to be called the kgb. >> the rough equivalent of the fbi for russia. >> but we do admit one thing. we a game changer now.

we to go after every bit of this information and track it down and be on top. the patriot law we got to start looking at people's computers, the internet. we got to start changing. >> geraldo: at least when you question a guy you put him on a list and when comes back from russia after is six months say hey, where have you been, man? we'll be right back. there is no mass-produced human. ♪ there is no mass-produced every signature is unique and every fingerprint unrepeatable. and there is one store that recognizes it: the sleep number store. the only place in the world you'll find the extraordinarily comfortable sleep number bed: the only bed with dual-air technology that allows you to adjust to the support your body needs. each of your bodies. it's part of the sleep number collection-innovations that individualize the way you sleep. from the perfect pillow ... to temperature-balancing bedding. and it's the only place you can save $400 on the

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the best way to get information interest this suspect is to initially hold him as an enemy combatant because there is evidence to suggest there is a terror attack and not a common crime and we don't have to read him the miranda rights. how can they question him

without reading him miranda rights international the court recognizes a public safety exception. triggered when t information the suspect has is necessary to protect the public or cops from immediate danger. questions like do you is any more bombs out there or know of any other terrorist attacks or any other terrorists lying in wait. is he is going to be questioned without the miranda rights but is going to be tried in a civil court. how does attorney ann coulter feel about that? she joins my panel of bo and robert. are hi. >> hello. >> geraldo: what are you thinking? >> two points one is the case that discovered the public safety exception was a rape case. it wast a terrorist with bombs. cops stopped him and found an empty who willster and said where is the gun. the new york court said no miranda and has to be thrown out. the supreme court said no, this is silly. it wasn't nearly as extreme as this where you don't know if he is working with other people or

others. miranda isn't in the constitution. what the court should look at is it the confession voluntary not whether a specific set of words were read. rehnquist ended up upholding it because of star idecised us. kind of a stretch that the precise words are necessary. >> geraldo: military tribunal. >> i already answered that. give me a break. you don't have to read miranda to a rapist. the rape is over. we are not worried about another bomb. >> geraldo: say it in english. court or tribunal? >> oh, court or tribunal. i suspect we need to know a little more information but certainly looking like a military tribunal. >> geraldo: do you want it to be a military tribunal? >> depends on the facts but looks like yes, this was.

>> geraldo: quadruple murder and four death sentences on this guy. >> i don't care what the guys were saying during the commercial break. a military tribunal done properly are does not give the defendant as many protections as a mere criminal in the united states. >> geraldo: robert first and then bo. >> i feel like a 9th grader trying to get in with the varsity here. sorry. i testified in a number of the guantanamo trials. they work and it can work under that context but i'm in the camp that says article 3 courts, federal courts have a great track record for trying terrorism trials. i believe this would also be a candidate for that. >> you have enough information, enough evidence. he has already admitted to the guy they hijacked. you have a good case here. mary jo white when she was here, remember the santa claus looking guy, he is in the federal pen degreesry for the

rest of his life. the guy with the shoe bomber are. they do a good job the united states. they will do a great job be with the evidence and be able to convict him. doesn't say that he can't cooperate with his lawyer and all of a sudden they can promise not to hang him from the tallest rafters. life imprisonment and no death penalty and he will open up. tell us the connections and then we will give you life forever in the supermax. >> just like terry nichols in oklahoma city and tim mcveigh. >> i think the article three court is going to give him much more of a chance of not getting the death penalty. if you watch w

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april 20 has long been celebrated by pot smokers. colorado legalized marijuana use last year. i'm marianne rafferty. now, back to "geraldo at large." for all of the latest headlines log on to foxnews.com. >> geraldo: back live. my guests ann coulter and robert mcfadden and bo. you know bo the hero nypd cop. i'm shocked that a constitutional attorney would pick a military tribunal when you clearly have civil jurisdiction here and the ability of the federal court to put this person to death as they put timothy mcveigh to death. the evidence is irfuteable. i don't understand the need to do? >> what i'm saying before is what you guys are talking about is results o or oriented. i think a military tribunal a

is legally appropriate. having put that aside i think you are wrong to think that an article three court is going to get the same justice we got in the the case of timothy mcveigh. he had the land record for crime to death penalty because liberals decided to portray him as a conservative although he was an atheist and a big pot smoker. more like bill maher than my politics. here they are defending him. they talked about how it was the older brother and calling him a boy and this network was calling him a gentleman. >> i don't think you will get that. right now you you have people running in a race and little children there and put the bag next to the little 8-year-old boy. his face will come up in the trial. the little kids with their legs blown off. people running the race for one reason, for people -- they have reasons for running. >> unemployment' telling you left is lobbying to keep this guy from getting the death penalty.

change the channel from fox and you will see. >> geraldo: the only way he doesn't the get the death penalty is if he rolls completely and gives up a terror cell and tracks it and becomes essentially an informant. >> i hope. >> robert mcfadden, ncis. mark harmon's role modeled after him in real life. the ncis guy. >> he is pretty handsome. >> geraldo: do you think the fbi informed the boston p.d. they were questioning someone in their jurisdiction for suspected terrorist activity back in 201? >> that is a good question? depends on whether the lead if it was from the russian fsb went to the joint terrorism task force or fbi field office. the task force are there very well could have been talk in there. for perspective on this okay because it is a major leadership decision when there is a situation like this we still don't know how much information there was on ld have -- >> geraldo: the older brother, the dead brother.

>> that could have kept him in the database. we have executive order 12333 intelligence oversight which governs collection on u.s. persons. he would have been a u.s. person. >> he wasn't naturalized. >> geraldo: he never got citizenship, tim. >> but still a legal resident alien gets the same protection. the point there is after a certain period of time if it there is little to no evidence of the decision whether to keep him in the database. >> geraldo: here is my thing and this is why i believe, ladies and gentlemen, this are many, many questions unanswered. if the russians feel strongly enough about this guy in 2011 to ask the united states to check him out, how then do they grant him a visa to go back to russia and he stays six months and in six months you could learn to do any kind of that fairous. >> that is a valid question and the kind of things full speed ahead being looked at right now. interesting to know if the

russians felt that strongly enough about it in this case did they give the notice through interi interpol. would demonstrate what they might have. >> geraldo: the next guest, one of the by products of the the bombings will be increased scrutinizism of american muslims. welcome. are you worried? >> hi, geraldo. thanks for are having me on the program. >> geraldo: how you are you feeling now? do you have a sense of anxiety? do you worry? >> yeah, i mean stuff like this is always worry some not only for the community and the muslim world but just in general i think across-the-board people are just is suspicious of anybody who is -- has any association with islam.

and you know when it happened i think a lot of muslims were like oh, good, it's two white guys and then found out that they were muslim and they were like oh, dang it, it's one of us. that doesn't reflect good on our society. >> geraldo: you are going to be experiencing even more profiling and scrutiny than muslim student groups for instance were experiencing before. you think that is fair? or do you think it is inevitable or -- >> it is inevitable. and i as much as i don't like it i understand it. whenever somebody from your own group commits a terrorist act like this then we are on everybody's radar again. and it is nothing new for me. i have since september 11th i

have continuously been profiled and detained. i have been arrested a few times because my name matches the name of a terrorist on the fbi most the wanted list unfortunately. and that is why, you know, found refuge in comedy was to try to talk about it and lighten the general population that not all muslims are what you see on the news. and also to define that most arabs are muslim but most muslims are not arab. and so you see this with this situation and it is unfortunate and my prayers go out to the victims and the families and but it is kind of a weakup call to it show the rest of the world that you can't define islam by culture. it is anybody can be a muslim and extremists for that matter and it is unfortunate. >> geraldo: in this case racial pro filing is okay? >> well, ahmed ahmed seems like

a fine fell lee. it wasn't like that after 9/11. stand lax security line it is all blonde girls. he says his name was on the list for the watch list. so was ted did i kennedy's and i want to go back to one other thing. >> geraldo: and i was on the no fly list. >> i would totally put you on a no fly list. >> the mustache. >> and russia warning us about this guy. i want to make one point here. >> geraldo: go ahead. >> and yet we are going to have the government check out 20 million illegal immigrants in the next three months under marco rubio's bill but they can't get this right. >> geraldo: the gratuitous slam. >> into new york city we will have a mayor who wants to stop, stop and frisk. they averted 15 terrorist attacks in the city. ray kelly is doing a great job and now they want a watch dog watching him. he is stopping them. the left is going so far to the left. stop the stop and frisk.

not getting guns, maybe bombs. next you can't go and eavesdrop on the muslim fellow because you are infringing upon his rights. where are the rights of the 8-year-old and the kids who had their legs blown up here. we have to have our people safe and whatever we got to do we got to do and the people in washington and the supreme court got to understand the little kids didn't deserve to get blown up like that. >> mike tobin is in watertown. welcome to the program. who is with you? >> well, i have a couple of guys who live in the neighborhood in watertown. just a block and a half outside of the search grid and that is why dhokhar tsarnaev was able to lay here undetected for as long as he did. shot the video going around on the networks. i want to talk to you about the explosion. you were a volunteer at the

marathon. what did you see and what did you do? >> i was in kenworth square three quarters of a mile from where the bomb had gone off. we heard the bombs and we were dealing with the stranded runners who were obviously displaced. they had no food, no money, no cell phones no, way of contacting their family. so we marathon volunteers had a rally to help them out as well and get them swing stated with their families. >> skip forward to thursday night. had you heard about the shootouts before things started happening in your neighborhood. >> i went for a washington earlier in the evening and then went to bed and i was woke up by a telephone call by the watertown police department alerting to us stay indoors. >> when was the first time you saw the cars and police showing. >> i 6:00 a.m. my neighborhood was not in the direct perimeter but you a couple of streets away we had s.w.a.t. vehicles all over the place. >> you shot the video that is rolling right now.

what was the first thing that you saw that made you realize something was going on? >> sitting in my condo and we heard a couple of chirps and the police were flying down the street. not the sirens going but you sometimes a quick chirp and my 9/11 ties and i quickly jumped up and looked and looked out the window and there were patrols on foot heavily armed running down the street away from my condo five houses down to where the is suspect was is. >> jump forward. just about a day later when the secure in place was lifted. you weren't feeling comfortable at the time when the secure in place was lifted. correct? >> it is true. it was announced you could leave and go out and i was thinking perhapses this might be an opportunity for is someone if they were tired and hungry and nightfall was coming upon them that they might take this as an opportunity to move so i kind of looked at my nephew and said let's just

wait, risk reward, wait and see what happens because something could happen in the next 35 minutes. >> something did happen. explain what happened right before the shooting. >> right before the shootout we were sitting there and the cars came by and that was what i explained before. the cars came down the street and the patrols came down and fanned out into our yard. and the neighbor's yards and i don't know why we just grabbed our cameras and started videotaping as much as we could. any fact ran out to the back deck for a little while and the police whistled at me and directed me to go right back inside so did i. i shut the door and pulled the blinds down and went back to the front of house and grabbed my ipad and started recording. >> we have seen the video this is okay and ath is over and a lot of people are thankful for that. zacarias at the moment is in --

dhokhar is intubeiated and sedated. it moves forward. the charges haven't come yet and could come any time, geraldo are. >> geraldo: what is wrong with that? >> you don't want him to have a lawyer? >> no, that was a sarcastic ex-hale in general. >> i was part of the practitioner's group that made the recommendation to the white house with the high value detainee interrogation group now the hig. we hear hig is on the the scene. the best and the brightest. >> geraldo: it has been there. >> not a matter of about miranda or are being able to talk. the exception to public safety. he will be talked to. >> geraldo: he will be talked to, fine. we will be right back, folks. the cost of all this, coming up.

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>> geraldo: one of the extraordinary things about this whole saga at the height of the manhunt for the boston suspects the entire city of boston shut down. schools, businesses. highways. mass transit. a million people told to stay home. shelter in place. the star of fox business liz clayman is here to give us the economic toll of this act of terror. you have a big fan there in bo. >> thank you, bo. >> what did the trade center cost many billions. i forget how many billions. >> just to new york city, the world trade center coming down and all of the lost risk

revenue and lost jobs in the wake of that was $95 billion. it ended up being $2 trillion tore $3 trillion for the entire nation when you talk about the psychological impact. >> geraldo: 2 or $3 trillion. what about boston? >> we don't know the numbers just yet but if you tell 625,000 people who live in the boston area, boston proper and then the surrounding areas about 1.5 million no mass transit. the t they shut down, the underground, of course. they had no buses. they were commandeering the buses to bring in the police officers. amtrak service suspended. forget it. taxi is service suspended. you didn't have people going to work and these are companies within the boston proper area cambridge as well, you are talking about biogen, boston properties. state street bank. new balance. sam adams. bain capital is in there. carbonite. sap the german software giant.

shut them dune. i talked to the ceo and he said we are not taking any chances at all. most companies said forget it everybody stay home. the lost money and needless to say we understand how you important the emotional and human toll is, that super cedes everything. it will take awhile to know the real cost of this. >> geraldo: in the double digit billions? where are do you figure? >> could very well be a billion plus. i would give it that at the moment because you also have major league sports that had to postpone two games. last night you had the red sox shotting down and saying no game. shut down fenway park because they hadn't caught the guy yet. you cannot take that chance. if you look at the gate receipts for rest so red sox ga sing isle home game $2.2 million in lost tickets. the fact is last night all of the bars and surrounding restaurants got hammered. the bruins game versus the pittsburgh penguins.

a hot ticket. they shut that down. t.d. garden is where they have that. that was 3 million in ticket sales not to mention bars and restaurants. they were able to quantify how much bars and restaurants would lose per game because the boston globe had done a survey and study when there was a lockout of the national hockey league, $850,000 to a million dollars just for are one night. >> i wonder what happened in cheer, no cheers in c

>> geraldo: what are your reaction to all the events that happened since the devastating and awful bombing? >> way too close to home. a life long boston resident. my whole family has a lot of pride for the city and for the boston marathon event. we superbeen involved for a long period of time. my reaction is sadness for the families. >> now, your dad and your uncle both officials at the marathon. where exactly were they? and where were you? >> my dad and uncle were at the finish line. my is sister just finished and my brother just finished and my fiancee had got p off the train to see me finish. when i was stopped a half mile and started hearing the words that something terrible happened at the finish line i can't explain the panic i was in. you know, runners backed up and rumors circulated it was just -- it went -- i went from the ultimate high having a

great race to really the ultimate low of oh, my god i don't know what happened to any of my family. >> geraldo: will the race ever be the same for you again, katie? >> we have to show the world what an amazing city this is and we are resilient and we will come back. my family and friends are planning on coming back next year. i know duvall patrick said it will be bigger and better than ever. i truly believe that. >> geraldo: when you are hearing that the that did this have been in the country since they were youngsters, radicalized apparently, chechens, refugees what are your feelings about that? >> people said they seemed normal and they wrestled and they boxed and they were athletic. seeing the pictures online of the suspect so close to martin richards who is one of victims of this. you wouldn't have thought twice that day and i'm sure the friends of these two now you terrible gentlemen i'm sure if

they said they were going to go to the boston marathon probably didn't think twice about it. probably said you are going to a great event and going to cheer on some great runners. terrible to think that people who would do something like this are walking among us. >> geraldo: the ability to put a bomb at the feet of an-year-old. >> i haven't slept well this whole week. just to know that there are people in the city that would put a bomb at an 8-year-old's feet. i mean what is the world coming to. it's terrible. >> geraldo: when you see the video of your sister sobbing? >> i have seen it too many times. her first marathon and she did fantastic and a great race. you can see her saying i just need to go find my dad and it was a great volunteer that you ushered her away from the finish line. in a lot of ways it is unfortunate we have to see her pain and terror over and over again and it is a picture that

i think ising. >> to live on long after these events become a memory. >> katie, thank you. >> thank you. i appreciate it. >> geraldo: of all of the images folks boston fighting back from the disgusting and cowardly attack i want to leave you tonight with my favorite. red sox slugger david ortiz letting the terrorists know what he thinks of them. here is pappy. >> this is our [ bleep ] city! and nobody going to dictate us. stray strong! >> geraldo: i want to thank liz. thank you very much. robert. always a pleasure. and you knew some people that got busted up. >> yep, yep. >> it is not even a week. >> it is not even a week. feels most people think that after an accident, you'll have to pay five hundred bucks for your deductible. the truth? at allstate, you could pay zero. allstate gives you a hundred dollars off your deductible the day you sign up. then another hundred off every year you don't have an accident. let the good hands reward your safe driving

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